Tales from The Engine Room

[00:00:00] Caroline Beavon (host): Hello and welcome to Tales from the Engine Room, where we meet the people who make up the Skiff, a co-working community in central Brighton.
[00:00:07] Alice Dewar-Mills: There's nothing I like more than helping people and helping people grow the things that they love.
[00:00:12] Caroline Beavon (host): I'm Caroline Beavon. I'm a digital storyteller, and I'm based at the Skiff too.
Across this series of eight interviews, we'll be meeting freelancers. Remote workers, solopreneurs, and small team leaders asking the question, what are you working on today?
This week we meet Alice Dewar Mills, a commercial director with a big idea.
[00:00:33] Alice Dewar-Mills: So my name is Alice Dewar Mills and I have set up my own company called Looking Glass Solutions, basically kind of taking the chaos out of contracts and commercial strategy.
I've been a commercial director for more years than I probably care to admit to. I got to that stage where I just wanted to do what I'm doing because I love what I'm doing. But I wanted to do it to help people who are looking to grow and who are struggling. We work in a variety of ways. It can be either on a retainer basis.. But we've also supported people in reviewing their contracts. And then one of the final things that I'm looking to pull together, and this has come predominantly outta working at the Skiff, is to doing some online cohort training. For freelancers because the Skiff is an inspiring place to be.
It's definitely got me from where I used to be to where I am today and where I'm going to. And I find I spend a lot of time talking about contracts, so I love talking about that. But what I'm looking to do is kind of pull that together into a short kind of training course with a cohort. So it's more gonna be more around discussions than just, 'here's me telling you stuff because, you know, I get that contracts are boring for other people.
[00:02:01] Caroline Beavon (host): Yeah. So how did you get into this, this field in the first place? You know, did you grow up a teenager or a kid going, I really wanna be a commercial director?
[00:02:09] Alice Dewar-Mills: So I went to university in Bath and at the time they were doing sandwich placements.
And I'm of an age where that was quite novel. So it was like two years at uni, one year's working one year. Back at uni for your final year. And that really appealed to me because I'm not particularly academic.
[00:02:29] Caroline Beavon (host): So what were you studying? What subject?
[00:02:30] Alice Dewar-Mills: Politics with economics.
[00:02:31] Caroline Beavon (host): Okay. So politician then obviously economist,
[00:02:36] Alice Dewar-Mills: people from my course either kind of went randomly into politics or into the NHS.
A lot of people went into the N H S. I'm not quite sure why
[00:02:43] Caroline Beavon (host): you didn't, you didn't fancy either of those routes.
[00:02:45] Alice Dewar-Mills: Well, I'd like to say my career path was structured. But it came to the time and we were like all frantically applying for placements. A lot of my friends were doing HR, so I applied for HR at Boots and went and interviewed for that before I got there and thought, I don't wanna do this. Why would I want to do this?
But I ended up filling out a recruitment form for Rolls Royce for their placement scheme because it was only three pages.
[00:03:14] Caroline Beavon (host): Good enough reason.
[00:03:15] Alice Dewar-Mills: God knows how I got an interview because I put a whole bit about how I liked cars. And Rolls Royce don't do cars any longer.
They do, they do airplane and helicopter engines. And I'm pretty sure I only got the job because I had turned up for the interview with missing two of my teeth.
[00:03:33] Caroline Beavon (host): Okay. That's the story. What happened? What happened there?
[00:03:35] Alice Dewar-Mills: So I had two adult teeth that never came down. Right. And the dentist said we'll take them out. We'll do it over these Easter holidays cuz you're gonna have to be without teeth for a week or two to settle down before we put a plate in. And Rolls Royce phone me up to say, can you come for an interview next week? And I'm like, well, I can, but I've got no teeth!
[00:03:57] Caroline Beavon (host): Do you think that worked in your favour? You think they were like, oh, this poor fool here with no teeth?
[00:04:00] Alice Dewar-Mills: I, I think it made me more memorable. Yeah.
[00:04:02] Caroline Beavon (host): They're like, now, got all these, all these cvs and resumes, all these like identical students. Who was the one that didn't have the teeth?
[00:04:09] Alice Dewar-Mills: Yes. (laughs)
[00:04:10] Caroline Beavon (host): You think that was what it was?
[00:04:12] Alice Dewar-Mills: So I went to work for Rolls Royce on a business placement.
Had the time of my life. There were like 30 of us. And yeah, it was fantastic and I learned a lot and I really enjoyed it. And it made me realize just I, I'm a lot better at working than I am writing essays. And then they invited me back as a graduate. In this, in this sector called contracts and commercial.
And I'm like, I have no idea what that is, but you are gonna pay me some money for my final year and you're gonna offer me a job, so yes. And over 20 years later, I'm still in the contracts and commercial management field.
[00:04:48] Caroline Beavon (host): Wow.
But so now what, what changed to, to put you in this, in this place where you think actually you want to start your own thing, move into, was it seeing a problem that needed solving or was it something in you that wanted to have a change?
[00:05:02] Alice Dewar-Mills: I think probably a bit of both. So I've been coming to the Skiff now for nearly two years, and I originally started coming because we were having building work. And it was just a, I used to get away so I can sit there and work and not be moving from room to room to avoid it.
And, I mean, I'm still here because it's such a great environment. But I think what I've discovered, and it's a great community and I think that's something I really, really value and I really value being part of Brighton. I think as a very strong community city I, and I feel very strongly part of the community here at the Skiff, like I do at school, the school that my kids go to.
But what I found is I talk to a lot of people and A lot of people and I find myself giving a lot of, a lot of advice
[00:05:57] Caroline Beavon (host): Auntie commercial here.
[00:06:00] Alice Dewar-Mills: Which is great. And because there's nothing I like more than helping people and helping people grow the things that they love. Yeah. And I think what I was doing as a day job is great and I loved my job, but ultimately at the end of the day, I was helping people who were already quite rich, make a lot more money.
Mm-hmm. And. Growing things that I don't really, I don't really care about. And there's so many people with so much passion that it's great. Mm-hmm. And I, I wanna help people do that. I wanna help people grow and where they get stuck.
[00:06:37] Caroline Beavon (host): It's interesting because the service or the, the, the insight and the, the expertise that you have is, I'm sure something that, that small companies starting out or you know, people that are going from maybe freelance to tiny little agency to, to start up to what whatever it is they're growing into, they, they'd only think about a role like yours when they needed it.
[00:06:58] Alice Dewar-Mills: Exactly. And that's what, that's sort of the way that I've pitched my business. I'm really here for the stuff that keeps you awake in the middle of the night. Yeah. Because you don't know how to do it. I mean, there's no point in me coming. I don't add any value if I come in and tell you stuff you already know.
But there's lots of stuff that. You know, you know your product or your service and you love that, and you've developed that and you know that inside and out, you don't know the risks of if you're selling that into a really big company. I mean, I've worked for a lot of big companies. They will try and screw you over where they can.
So you want someone on your, in your corner to help negotiate your side of that. I think it's, it's really easy just to go, okay, I'll sign it. And then, you know, six months down the line you realize you've made a bit of a mistake because you've lost some of your IP or you know, the terms aren't as favorable or don't work for you.
It doesn't matter about being favorable, they don't work for your personal setup.
[00:07:47] Caroline Beavon (host): It's interesting because the, the alternative is in, for people like me would probably be speak to a lawyer, which feels terrifying in itself even though they're supposed to be on your side. You think don't trust it. It's expensive, it's terrifying, but actually you are an alternative to that.
[00:08:02] Alice Dewar-Mills: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, don't get me wrong, I've got a very extensive network of Lawyers who, who I will field work to when it's out of my remit. Mm-hmm. You know, if it's a point of lawyer, you need to speak to a lawyer. But there is a lot that you can do without a lawyer for a lot less money. And, and also there's a lot more that you'll get from the likes of like Looking Glass Solutions that you wouldn't get from a lawyer, because a lawyer will give you a point of view on a, on the legal side of it. What they won't be able to do is give you, or they won't, they won't give you that business side of it, you know?
So for example I was talking to a client recently about can they do this with their pricing?
I'm like, well, you can, you know, within the realms of your contract, but you might wanna pitch it this way because, you know, so for example, one of the things I've been telling my clients a lot in the current climate is if you are not increasing your prices and you should have a clause in your contract that allows you to increase for inflation. If, if you are not doing that, you need to tell your clients that you are not doing that. You need to be able to bank, the goodwill as it were. And go Look, we value the relationship. You know, we all know that inflation's over 10% still. We are not passing that onto you. Yeah. Because we really value it.
And, and you are gen you, you are generating something that even if you didn't have the ability to put the price up, you're generating something that wasn't there before. And that's the sort of advice you wouldn't get from a lawyer. They would go, yes, you can, or No, you can't. Yeah.
[00:09:39] Caroline Beavon (host): So this is the kind of advice, obviously, you could give someone who puts you on a, a retainer or has you on their, on their, on their books or someone that they come to.
But also you mentioned earlier on this idea of almost like a cohort, almost like a, like a like a school to learn and learn about all this stuff. So how, how would that work?
[00:09:55] Alice Dewar-Mills: So one of the things, so we offer is training for people's in-house contract management. Because quite often small companies can hire someone quite junior.
But without that they, they, you know, without that, they need that kind of overseeing level. And you know, I've spent years developing people across the globe. You know, my team's always been multinational. But I think something that's really come out of working here at the Skiff is I think there is a, a gap in the market for people who want, who want to learn a bit more about contracts.
I think when I talk to freelancers, I think it's something that they find quite scary and they don't really want to touch. But contracts are just a conversation, right. It's
[00:10:46] Caroline Beavon (host): the word is terrifying. Honestly, I'm, I'm, I'm nodding here and getting a little bit of a cold sweat because the, because I, I, you know, I, in the past I've had like a two page very loose agreement with clients almost just to set out the boundaries of what the relationship is. And I know that's what a contract is, but it's just something about that word that it puts most freelancers in a tailspin and you just, it's almost easier not to even bring it up.
[00:11:07] Alice Dewar-Mills: Yeah.
[00:11:08] Caroline Beavon (host): And then you are just, even, even in more precarious situation, I'm sure,
[00:11:12] Alice Dewar-Mills: but it's not even about being in a precarious legal situation. I think a contract or a term of business or whatever you wanna call it, and cuz a name is just a name is really important because if you can lay out what you are delivering, You and your client know what you're gonna get or what they're gonna get. So you are minimizing any kind of potential confusion down the line or any potential disappointment cuz that happens.
You know, you think you've had the conversation and you think you're both on the same page, but you know, sometimes you're not entirely. But the whole purpose of the training is to, and I want to run it as as cohorts because I think it's works better as a discussion is to. You know, run probably about four sessions and just have a conversation to empower people to have those conversations themselves and to kind of go payment terms.
I can have this conversation to say, look, my standard payment terms are 17 sorry, 14 days, but if you need longer, that's fine, but it might cost you a bit more because you know that money's not in my bank account and I'm a freelancer. Mm-hmm. And I'm dependent on the cash flow. Yeah. You know, and that's, yeah. Yeah. That's a human argument. You can kind of say I need, there's nothing wrong with saying I need that cash flow because I'm a freelancer. I'm not a big business that has a bank account with, you know, thousands and thousands of pounds in it to sit and pay my payroll.
[00:12:34] Caroline Beavon (host): And, and it's, it's so interesting cuz you put you put three freelancers in a, in a room, and there's 10 different ways that they'll do pricing because it'll change between different clients. It'll change between different projects. And you go, oh, I know them. It's fine. The terms are different because it's them. It's, it's much more of a wooly fluffy.
But I love this idea of, of. Almost setting up the setting up almost like I feel like a, a business therapy space where we could, where we can all kind of flesh out what we're doing and thinking, oh, actually that doesn't, that works for you and that, but you are there with the kind of this, this, all these years of experience and saying, actually here's, here's, here's some things that really would work. Yeah. From experience.
Yeah. That sounds amazing.
[00:13:10] Alice Dewar-Mills: So yeah, that's, that's the a plan Autumn 2023.
[00:13:15] Caroline Beavon (host): Good lord. What I love is that this, this idea kind of came from, from being in this, in this co-work space that, you know, from, I guess was, was it your first, I mean, obviously it's not the first time, first time you'd ever met a freelancer, but is it, is it the first time that you've worked in a, in a space like this, which is full predominantly of, of kind of Yes the solopreneurs or freelancers.
[00:13:36] Alice Dewar-Mills: Yeah. And, and I think the whole entrepreneurial spirit of the Skiff is amazing. And it's definitely made me braver. So for example, as well as that, I've got an, I'm, I'm also helping a friend develop an app , a health app very early stages. But she had an amazing idea.
I am not good at tech or ideas, but I am good at implementation and, you know, and I, having just set up my own business, I'm also like, oh, these are all the things that we need to consider. I probably would not have grasped that opportunity if I hadn't been surrounded by people I see week on week, just doing stuff.
[00:14:24] Caroline Beavon (host): There is that spirit in this place. It's, yeah, it's, it's, it's, and I've worked in other co-working spaces and nowhere else quite has this Oh, let's try it. Yeah, let's, what are you doing? Oh, that looks good. Let's, I'll, I'll, can I help with that? And there's a, there's a sort of collaboration going on behind the scenes and there's just this real kind of melting pot and for such a quiet, unassuming place.
[00:14:45] Alice Dewar-Mills: Yeah, you wouldn't think it coming in, but but yeah, it's one, it is one of those places, like I watch people go, well, I'll try it. I might like it, I might not. And what's the har if it goes wrong, what's the harm? Yeah. And you're like, Yeah. So it, it's made me braver. It's made me a lot braver and it's a lot more exciting.
[00:15:06] Caroline Beavon (host): That's amazing. That's amazing. So, in terms of practically, cause at the moment you are still I know you, you are currently setting up you are own business and working on this health app as well, but you are also still a remote worker mm-hmm. At the moment. Mm-hmm. So how does that work in terms of being in a, in a space like this?
Have you always been remote or is it ...
[00:15:26] Alice Dewar-Mills: I've been a remote worker for. About 15 years.
[00:15:29] Caroline Beavon (host): Okay. So you've got it down pat, you know what you're doing.
[00:15:33] Alice Dewar-Mills: Yeah. So I am very skilled at, and you know, I've always worked in a very geographically dispersed teams. So I am very good at building communities virtually. And I think that's really, really important if you are if you're not in an office because otherwise it gets a bit lonely.
[00:15:54] Caroline Beavon (host): So how do you do that? Like how, because I, I know a lot of people are struggling since the pandemic who have been, you know, lifelong office workers and have suddenly, oh, you can just work from home now. And they have no idea how that works. Or, and, and sometimes there's a loneliness because they're not now with face-to-face human beings. So how do you, how do you build those communities digitally?
[00:16:12] Alice Dewar-Mills: So I think you have to make time to chat to people. So, you know, in teams calls, I will have a bit of a chat, and then also I'm very open. And upfront about some of my personal stuff. Now, obviously there's a lot of stuff I, I don't wanna share with people I work with, but you know, I will chat away about the fact that, you know, I'm a mom of two, I've got a dog. And, and I think one of the things that was unexpected at the back of that and which I am very proud of, is so I've worked in very senior positions whilst juggling two small children. And one of my colleagues said to me a couple of years ago, you made me see that I could have kids and do it. Which is one of the things that has really, really moved me because it is a juggle and it is hard. But rather than hide that away, I kind of think I need to show that to people because, just cuz I just, cuz I might not be there at half past three when I'm picking up the kids from school back online in the evening. Yeah. And, but you can do it in some ways if you want to.
[00:17:32] Caroline Beavon (host): And that's so important to have, have examples of people who are making it work. And it's not about being superwoman. No. It's not about trying to do all the things.
And you know, I, I really hate that somebody once said to me in some networking session, they said, oh cause I said, oh, I just don't have time for all the things. And they said, and she said, you've got the same amount of hours as Beyonce. And I'll say, yes, but Beyonce has a staff of 50. Yeah. She has nannies and someone to empty the flipping dishwasher. Yeah. You know, it's, it's not the same.
[00:18:01] Alice Dewar-Mills: It's, it's not the same. And it involves a lot of compromise. Yeah. But I do think, and I think this is moving a lot more, much more rapidly post pandemic, but businesses and industries aren't gonna change unless we push the change. And my work life is very, very flexible. You know, I am, I, I work lots of hours. But I do it here and there and I, I, I try and schedule in it when it suits me. Now, don't get me wrong, I still have the clashes of stuff that is, you know, pulling my hair out. But you know, I have no problem if someone phones me and says, let you know I'm picking my kids up from school.
I'll call you back in a half hour. You know, I'll chat to you now, or I'll call you back in half an hour because I still get the job done. Yeah. You know, and at the end of the day, If you're sharing that, you still get the job done, that's all that people care about.
[00:18:58] Caroline Beavon (host): Do you have like a typical day or is it you just go by the sea, your pants or whatever happens?
[00:19:04] Alice Dewar-Mills: I, no, I, I don't really have a typical day. I mostly work in Europe now, so sometimes that means call from like 7:00 AM in the morning. But I mean, I think the thing that I find the most useful. Is I block everything out in my calendar. Mm-hmm. So, so for example, this is blocked out. This is blocked out on my calendar. So then it happens and it just helps me to organize all of, all of the things that I need to do. But I think the only thing I typically do every day is I get up and I, when I turn on my laptop, I write down my to-do list. And I try my hardest to keep that to-do list are things that I think I can get at least 70% done in the day.
[00:19:50] Caroline Beavon (host): That's good.
[00:19:50] Alice Dewar-Mills: Because otherwise it's really soul destroying that, that list that just keeps getting bigger and bigger as the day goes on. Yeah.
[00:19:56] Caroline Beavon (host): So that's, so in your calendar you're saying about blocking things out. Do you also block out, because obviously you block out events or meetings and things like that. Yeah. That, that, that makes, that makes sense. Do you also block out, here's what I'm going to work on this so block out time for yourself to work on either. You know commercial director work or side project work, or new business work. Do you have that or blocked out as well?
[00:20:18] Alice Dewar-Mills: I don't and I know that works for a lot of people but it doesn't really work for. Me personally, because of just how my brain works, I am, I am very deadline driven. I'm a very deadline driven person, and I would love to be that organized person that goes, I'm just gonna do two hours on this. But actually the nature of my business means that I could block that time out, but someone will be pinging me.
You know, something else urgent might come in. So hence why I kind of have that to-do list. I go, well, these are the most important things. So that's what I'll try and work through first. You know, I'm not also adverse to putting things on my to-do list and ticking 'em off after I've done them just for the buzz.
[00:21:05] Caroline Beavon (host): I have to cross them out. I can't do a tick if I can still read it. It hasn't been done. So I have to like black mark it.
[00:21:11] Alice Dewar-Mills: Oh, I've got an electric electronic one. In one note,
[00:21:13] Caroline Beavon (host): ah, I'm more about the pen and paper.
This is what I love. And I, I love it when we, you know, we get to, we get to our age and we can work out what works for us.
And it's not just, you know, I've tried a million different productivity systems and bullet journaling and all these different things, and for me it comes back to a notepad or a notebook. With tiny little post-it notes in it. And I have like a Trello style system. Yeah. But it's all on bits of paper in my notebook.
And for me, that always works. So it's, it's, it's nice isn't it, that you, we've kind of found what works for our particular brains
[00:21:44] Alice Dewar-Mills: and I think, I think that's kind of it. It's, it's about, Going, what works for your brain? Yeah. Because brains are all very, very different. Mm-hmm. You know, and I, I find that working with lots of other people that, you know, people can come across it in very different ways,
[00:21:59] Caroline Beavon (host): and I think that's interesting as, as, as freelancers that we are in, in, you know, working in this, in the environment. And you must have seen this, that everybody, because you are your business and I am my business, I'm a, I'm a solo person working just for myself and. My business is a definitely extension of my personality and I run it that way. And that can be chaotic sometimes, and it can also be a bit, you know, a bit slow sometimes.
And it's, but it's because, and I guess this comes back to this, this cohort system that you, that you're going to do is that you can almost help people iron out the the personality bits that are impacting on their business in a bad way and helping them keep the bits that, and I guess that's something you see for businesses that that personality comes out.
[00:22:41] Alice Dewar-Mills: Yeah. And I don't think it's bad that your business is a reflection on you. I think that's great. That's a fantastic thing. And I think that's how it should be, because, you know, fundamentally, at the end of the day, people buy from people, you know. It's the, the trust and the relationship that you kind of build up with people. That means you buy from them. But the whole point of setting, well, not the whole point, but one of the points of setting up my own business is I wanna be me. You know? And I think also I, I'm at that age where I've got that realization that me is pretty cool. I'm pretty happy with who I am, and I'm, and, and I want to work with people who want to work with people like me.
You know, and I kind of think like in my twenties and the early thirties, I was very much a lot more business focused. And, you know, it was very efficient in, in this sort of way. And I, I am efficient. I'm not, I'm not gonna lie, I'm a bit of an organizational freak, but do you know what I like working on lots of different things.
You know, I like you know, my brain works at a hundred miles an hour and I, I, I keep an eye on that, but that's, that's, its natural. That's its natural pace, you know? And, and that's okay.
[00:24:01] Caroline Beavon (host): I've got a couple of quick questions just because I thought let's wrap up with a kind of a bit of a quick fire question.
[00:24:07] Alice Dewar-Mills: So it's currently coming up to lunchtime. What's for lunch?
Today? Leftover cottage pie. Ooh, homemade. Yeah. Do you do, do, do you cook or do you Oh God no. No. I very rarely cook because I'm a bit shocking at it, but this is one of the few things I can cook. It's my daughter's favorite and she's poorly at the moment, so she'll had it for tea last night and cuz she's poorly, there's leftovers.
[00:24:30] Caroline Beavon (host): If you didn't live in Brighton, where would you live?
[00:24:33] Alice Dewar-Mills: In the uk, probably Bristol. Mm-hmm. I spent many years in Bristol. I love it a lot. Nice. It's a very similar vibe to Brighton, I think.
[00:24:40] Caroline Beavon (host): If not uK, worldwide.
[00:24:43] Alice Dewar-Mills: I think I'll be a bit nomadic.
[00:24:44] Caroline Beavon (host): Ooh, you see, that's such. A lifestyle that I wish I could do, but I just don't think I'd be organized. I'd leave laptop charges in every single place.
[00:24:52] Alice Dewar-Mills: Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure that's the case. I'm sure that's, I mean, I'm, I'm the person who's renowned for, forgetting something whenever we go away.
[00:25:01] Caroline Beavon (host): No, I might be a challenge for us. I dunno. I, no, I love, I love that idea of like working on a beach in Thailand. And then going chance to Amsterdam or Berlin or all that.
[00:25:08] Alice Dewar-Mills: Yeah. Amazing. If, if I could, I would love to do that.
[00:25:11] Caroline Beavon (host): Maybe when the kids are older.
[00:25:12] Alice Dewar-Mills: Yeah.
If you could earn the same money doing any single job in the world, what job would you do?
I'd do what I do now. I really have a love for it. I love the problem fixing side of it. I love the negotiation and the resolution side of it.
I love the. You know, that the helping, helping people side of it it, it's can be a field that can be seen as, you know, a bit of a, you know, you need to be aggressive and all of, you know, table thumping and all of that sort of stuff. And I don't get me wrong, I have worked for people like that in this field, which isn't my style, you know?
I am much more partnerial and let's get a resolution and, you know, and bringing the human side to, to what you're talking about and I love that
[00:26:01] Caroline Beavon (host): And you can find out more about Alice and her new venture at Looking Glass Solutions on LinkedIn and Instagram plus looking glass solutions.com.
And if you're interested in working alongside people like Alice and myself, then head to the skiff.org.
And finally, don't forget to subscribe to Tales from the Engine Room, and we'll see you next time.